By Maulana Wahiduddin Khan for New Age Islam
01 June, 2015
Maulana Wahiduddin Khan in a Discussion about the Taliban with a Dutch Researcher
Q: The Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan—they are creating such terrible mayhem. There’s also talk of Deobandi madrasas. Is there any relation between the two?
A: Many people think that the Taliban are a product of Madrasas, but I don’t agree. The Taliban are a product of reaction. It was by chance that they were educated in madrasas—in Deobandi Madrasas in Pakistan—but, in fact, they are not a product of Madrasas as such. The Pakistani state wanted to create a force like this to serve its own ends, and so it provided liberal aid to some of these Madrasas in Pakistan and motivated them to provide armed training to their students. It provided them everything they needed, including guns, in order to use them for its purposes. I do not believe these Madrasas were originally established for this purpose. No, it was the Pakistani leadership that exploited them for its own purposes.
There have been three major phases of the Taliban. The first phase began in 1979, when Russia invaded Afghanistan. The US considered this expansion of communist Russia to be a major threat. And it found it very easy to use people and groups in Afghanistan of the sort who went on to be known as the Taliban to fight against Russia. It provided them money and weapons. So, this is the genesis of the Taliban.
It was the USA, through all the assistance that it provided these people, that was responsible for expelling Russia from Afghanistan. But the whole Muslim world, except for myself, gave credit for this to groups like the Taliban. And so, suddenly people like the Taliban emerged as so-called heroes in their eyes!
The whole Muslim world is living in this false belief—that forces like the Taliban ousted Russia from Afghanistan, while actually it was America that was responsible for this. This false attribution of success created the problem. Because of this, forces like the Taliban suddenly became very powerful and popular across the Muslim world.
Q: The Taliban? Or the Mujahideen? I suppose you mean the Mujahideen?
A: Taliban or Mujahideen, both are one and the same. There is really no difference between them. The Taliban were the Mujahideen, and the Mujahideen were the Taliban. So, as I was saying, suddenly people like the Taliban were regarded as heroes, not just in Afghanistan or in Pakistan, but across large parts of the whole Muslim world, because the credit for expelling the Russians from Afghanistan was wrongly given to them, rather than to the USA. As a result of this, people like the Taliban became very powerful.
It was the USA that had first promoted these sorts of forces, and then Pakistan. After the Russians were expelled from Afghanistan, Pakistan wanted to use these sorts of forces against India, in Kashmir. This was the second phase of forces like the Taliban. Just as America had used these forces to oust Russia from Afghanistan, Pakistan wanted to use these sorts of forces to oust India from Kashmir. It was the same sort of planning. But this time, these forces failed completely. These forces—all sort of groups, Lashkar-this and Lashkar-that—infiltrated into India, with Pakistani help, but they totally failed.
Groups like the Taliban are now in their third phase. Having been liberally supported first by America and then by Pakistan, they have much money and weapons. And they are seething with anger and revenge. At present, they are like a defeated army.
Q: When the Taliban came to power in Afghanistan, in the mid-1990s, they imposed harsh rules—they stoned criminals, banned music, oppressed women, and so on, in the name of Islam. Were you surprised by all this?
A: I am completely against this kind of culture. People generally take all this as an Islamic phenomenon, but it is not. The Taliban exploited Islam for these policies, but these policies are not Islamic. All their actions were totally un-Islamic. I have a fair understanding about Afghanistan—I’ve been to that country, and my ancestors were from there. I know that these policies of theirs are not part of Islamic culture, but, rather, of tribal culture. The Taliban want to impose their tribal culture in the name of Islam. All those stories you read about with regard to the Taliban reflect tribal culture, not Islamic culture. For instance, it was the Taliban who shot Malala Yousafzai—this is a reflection not of Islam but, rather, of tribal culture. In tribal culture, there is no concept of women education—they know only the sword. Education is nothing for them.
The tribal culture is essentially based on revenge. It is revenge, and not Islam, that is the motivating force for the Taliban. Talibani or tribal culture is a culture based on revenge.
Q: There is this idea that after the expulsion of Russia from Afghanistan, when the Mujahideen took over, there was complete lawlessness in the country, and that the Taliban were able to impose some sort of justice, even though it was very harsh justice. What do you feel?
A: It wasn’t justice. It was tribal culture. It was no justice at all. It was totally tribal culture in the name of justice, in the name of Islam. It is barbaric culture, but they implemented it in the name of Islam, and so people wrongly believed it was Islamic, although it wasn’t really so.
Q: You are engaged in trying to promote peace at the international level. Have you tried to do this in Afghanistan? Have you tried to advise people there who are engaged in violence to give up their ways?
A: I did try this, though indirectly, through some friends who were in Afghanistan, but these efforts failed. Even today, no one in Afghanistan wants to listen to reason. No one there wants to listen to our message of peace. Our mission is based on peace, and peace is not their concern. They know only the language of extremism. Reason is just not part of the Talibani culture.
Q: To come back to the question I started with, about this talk of Taliban and Deoband…
A: People wrongly attribute the Taliban to Deoband. As I said, the Taliban is not a Deoband phenomenon. Not at all. It is simply accidental that senior Taliban leaders had studied in madrasas belonging to the Deobandi school of thought, madrasas that are based on the Deoband syllabus. Deoband itself is not a military movement. It is simply an educational movement.
As I mentioned, the Taliban and other such groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan are basically a phenomenon of USA and Pakistan. First, the USA, and then Pakistan, were responsible for training and promoting these forces, for giving them all sorts of help. So, it’s a phenomenon of America and Pakistan, and not of Deoband.
Q: Why do you feel that more Muslim scholars are not going on TV saying that what’s happening in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the things groups like the Taliban are doing, is wrong and un-Islamic and that they do not agree with them?
A: Maybe they fear. There have been many cases of people speaking out against the Taliban being shot dead.
Q: I am writing a book about the head of the Taliban, Mullah Omar. I’m trying to understand his mind-set, trying to see what sorts of books he studied that shaped his mind.
A: People like Mullah Omar would have been nothing had it not been for the American support to these sorts of forces. It was with America’s help that they succeeded in expelling Russia from Afghanistan. The false attribution of this success to these forces, rather than to America, made them powerful, and that’s how Mullah Omar became who he became. Otherwise, he was just an ordinarymaulvi. I’m a maulvi, too. The whole game-plan was America’s.
Q: But Mullah Omar took to violence. What role did his education have in that?
A: This had to do with the situation prevailing in Afghanistan at that time, which Russia created with its invasion of the country. His education did not create that situation. It was the Russian aggression that created that situation, which dominated every Afghan’s thinking. They all wanted Russia out.
Q: People like the Taliban and Osama bin Laden have gravely damaged the image of Islam, isn’t it?
A: Indeed. Immensely. They’ve done terrible harm. They have distorted the image of Islam totally. Islam is a religion of peace, but they projected it as a religion of violence. We are trying to correct this, by showing that Islam is a religion of peace. This is our mission.
11:11 PM
Moderate Islamist here
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